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Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

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DrZebra

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Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:37 am

the "active front" missions on the syndicate server have a coop-styled theme and are done with a lot of nice little details and are as a matter of fact a lot more interesting then the stock RoF campagin (in terms what goes on around you, ai-flights with missions, ground stuff) and you get pretty nice missions and info on what to do.. and the flight times (at least in fighters) are not overly long.

maybe just flying there on an almost empty server with 2-4 people, flying ww1 style missions (like a joint balloon attack) together would make for a good vid or a series, more focused on survival then pro-scores.

what do you guys think?
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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:40 am

This is a great idea!


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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Thu Sep 25, 2014 1:22 am

Now I've got a bit more time, I would like to talk more about this. How do you wanna set this up? If you want to play just you and me that would be cool or maybe we can find a few other pilots to play with us. Do we wanna keep it realistic and only talk to each other on the ground? Or setup a chat server? If you have Fraps available that would be great as I could edit in your view and create some really interesting videos.


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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:00 am

Well, it could be pretty flexible, around 2-4 players is most simple, but off course it could also be more.. and you could also make it a series with different players and to add a bit "drama" and narative have everyone make a character (and a new one if one dies).
That way, the gameplay could be held beginner friendly and survival oriented without the need for grand heroics ;=)

Maybe even a challenge: who survies 5/10/15/20 missions and so on..

My constraints are, that I have a fairly low-end computer and if it gets too full, I just painfully lag around nor do I have much resources to run coms aside. So I thought, turn a disadvantage into an advantage and make it a concept.. and try to feel like new recruits must have felt, when they got to the front, knowing they could hardly stand up against expierenced pilots while having to follow and watch their lead while getting better etc...

Off course that needs a bit of thinking to keep it interesting for the viewers... like a) keeping flight times relatively low (in bombers missions can take up to an hour etc.. in fighters some 15-20min can be done) and b) maybe have some storybits ready to tell.. or whatever. But keeping some continuity might be a way to make it quite unique. telling about what happens in the normal flight (navigation etc.. it can be quite challenging)

To avoid getting lost and all that, a bit of a plan is needed, especially since you haven´t yet set up the view things perfectly and it can indeed get a bit confusing (i´ve lost contact to people in fights quite a lot...) but that too could be "concept" in terms of dramatizing the decisions. should I go home alone? Continue mission? do we have a backup meeting point planned? All with the survival focus off course, not only for you but for them comrades (if you´d leave them ;=) )



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DrZebra

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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:46 am

so, down to communications

what would be needed to comunicated beforehand?

general stuff: time and server, pilot name

mission specific on server: what plane, what drome, which goal/target, who leads the flight? What weapons (default bombs need to be removed under "hangar" or else you get bogged down by weight, picking an apropriate fuel level helps tremendously)

then misson plan: waypoints with courses and altitudes, I could even do estimated times, if it was requested (or if it made sense in any way), waiting points in case someone gets lost. IMPORTANT:
plan what to do on target

why:
balloon runs can be brutal with flak, if you want to survive it is 1-2 attack runs MAX. off course, if you dive in as a group, chances get vastly better to get in the first pass and make it home. generally: on those servers it is essential to leave flak zones a quickly as possible and never get low over enemy territory without any good reason. Generally you are pretty safe at 6000ft and over from AAA... or medium safe running really low at 10-15 ft. But then you really should run out of the area, anything in between for prolonged time means certain death.

I think, if the least experienced players lead the flight, it often is a good thing, as they don´t have to concentrate on flying in formation. but it means they should have a navigational clue, and when NOT to attack (putting yourself in the mercy of a superior enemy isn´t healthy) If we´d take allied planes (like the se5) running is almost always an option, central planes do not have that luxury (save for the Pfalz DXII) and with the allied you could say that at altitude, anything same height or below is fair game for the leader to pick on, anything above is "ruuuuun". Generally a healthy "ruuun" attitude wouldn´t be unrealistic after taking damage etc.. ;=)



In-flight signals:
So how to attract attention, find each other (once lost) and call out enemies?

more inconspicous ways:
flying close rocking the wings or firing a short burst of machine gun (NOT at the other, obviously, next to each other): general call of attention (actually historically used like that, wing-waggles are still in use as "greeting" signal).
Use when enemies or contacts are spotted.  Or for navigational corrections...
with the arm signals there could be more precise details th given (crt+2 and crt+3 give directional swiggles) like which direction to look.

flares are great,  but with other players on the server they attract attention (and a lot of that) so the hotter the area, the less a flare is advisable. They are great though for finding together again when lost..  and somewhat safer the deeper in own territory.

how about the following:

single red: HELP (fired by anyone whatever reason, upon seeing that head there. careful, might be somebody else using red, too maybe red-white would be unique enough to see it is our flight..)

one red, one yellow: regroup (fired by the leader to indicate his position to lost members)
                                    or: follow me in (like in a joint balloon attack)

single green: "ruuuun" (by anyone. meaning a superior enemy has sneaked upon us..)

green and white: "I need to abandon misson, heading home" (by anyone, indivdual plane breaks off)

red gold and green: Bob Marleys Birthday or general reason to celebrate

and so on.. we could make it as it makes sense on the way..
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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:16 am

This sounds amazing! I can tell you've put some thought into this and now you have got me pumped. Images of pilot rosters flash before my eyes! So lets take this a step at a time.

We won't have live communications. I like your ideas about the flares and I'm sure we can workout a system with those.
About a server, I could host one for our sessions. I have a lot of ideas and i think having a server that we run would be needed. To keep out the riff raff Razz

We could make a website that we can recruit people too that wanna fly in our Jasta. Maybe have them take a short preliminary course, about navigation and communiction and such. We chould have a roster board to keep track of pilots and there status. We could give people promotions and medals. We could have a ready room where we present the missions. Let me know what you think about some of this stuff and then we can start working things out piece by piece.


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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:36 am

a server would also be cool, but the flying under the week on a complex server with ai (the syndicate have really nice missions, better then the career) and few-and-far inbetween players would be my favorite way.. but off course it would be abit difficult, as you need to pick the right time
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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:41 am

I see what your saying. My only concern with using the syndicate server would be playing with people who don't know our communication system and the like.


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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:54 am

well, it is a balance thing. but the "active front missions" are designed as coop and PvP missions, so you got ai flights doing their thing and  players doing their thing.
Essentially other players on our side would be like other flights from other squadrons... you don´t need to work with them, but you can encounter them as part of the environment.
But some there would also opposing players as a "risk" and some fly together in 2-4 planes. Fighting those (like the "black haze" squadron or the J5s that would the most dangerous thing. But by selectiong what to do, you can steer that risk a bit (like taking a back country road, when you know they are prowling) some even fly DiD (Dead is Dead) campaigns together, meaning they try to live their virtual life as long as possible. so basically they will behave a whole lot less "acardish" on the complex sever, which really makes for a much nicer environment.


server seems empty now, want to go and have a look?
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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Thu Sep 25, 2014 2:22 pm

I liked that mission and i see what your saying about other people being serious about that server. However i feel if there were a bunch of people talking in the chat in a video it would look kinda bad and i wouldn't have any way of censoring what they say. I just had a look at the mission editor for RoF and it doesn't look like anything to difficult to use. That being said we might be able to find a way to make it work on syndicate. What did you think of having a place to do all our RP (roleplaying) bits, like a roster board and ready room and stuff? We might be able to do it here on this forum, or I could get a website and make it more official.


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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:54 pm

normally, the chat isn´t much in use, as most people use voice-comms like teamspeak. But it can also be hidden by rightclick-> hide hud (which unfortunatly hides all overlays, so the map, too ..but then again, it can be made visual any time again with rightclick). I don´t know if you can drag it onto a second screen, though, all the elements in the overlays can be drag&dropped.
for not wanting the other team to read all, you can use crt+enter (pressed at the same time) to send teamside-only messages. But generally, the visible chat isn´t much of a problem, as the people flying in the complex servers are mostly behaving mature (the quick-action ones are the more problematic)

overall, getting to fly without too much direct communication but using instead signals and so on, like the guys actually had to do, would be more preferable to me, as I imagine it quite interesting and a special kind of challenge to get teamwork done with all the challenges the people had in ww1. Off course it can also be more fun and social with talking comms, but my old machine doesn´t like much additional stuff running, so making a drawback a virtue, I thought..

here is a vid of how it looks when a team flies together from the JG 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1yGBDRf2zk&list=UUecn5g-qxp5ohtJEXTu121Q
they also do 50 mission survival challenges in Il2:Cliffs of Dover, and even manage to survive that ;=)

in the RoF-forum there is section with many people flying together as "squadrons" and links to different homepages if you want to have a look how other people do it: http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewforum.php?f=349


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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:58 am

Lol testing my German a bit. Guess I remembered a fair bit because i got some of what they where saying. Anyway i had a look at the 1st Ariel Battalion. http://aerialbattalion.com/index.php This is exactly what I want for our Squadron. Althrought we'll use real names for out pilots. So if we want to go ahead and use the Syndicate server lets move on and talk about a website. Were gonna need a few things. Maybe a squadron logo and a name!


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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:58 pm

well, names there is plenty of room, like "the dukley dukes" or the "Dukley Ducks" simply "the Dukes of Haphazard" or maybe something universal, aimed at players participation and the nature of the squadron / gamemod

So, while "squadrons" are a pretty comonplace in the flightsim world, and you can also always do things the "normal" way (it is totaly fine to co-exist with other ways of playing by even the same players) what set things appart for this venture would be

-virtual pilots (with extra profiles) that can be given a story, but that are also able to die
-making no-voice coms a concept, that adds difficulty, imersion and fun as well as making the squadron jump over any language barrieres ;=)
-gameplay aimed cooperative player vs ai rather then PVP
-No "Big names" since player name and pilot names are not necessarily identifyable at first look, nor do players need to fly "exclusivly" for this squadron, they can just occasionally drop in, as long as concepts, basic pre-flight communication needs and in-flight signals are clear
-not aimed at highscores/ super professional playing but fun and survival
-trying to recruit other recording/let´s play making folks would do for a great fun factor, as the score is less important but rather the procedings and social changes death brings into the squadron ;=)

writing that in to a more compelling text, we could visit some forums and try to get people join the idea.. I was thinking that maybe jimmy blonde or so might also like to give it a try.


on a sidenote: do you know that there are statistics programes auto-evaluating scores etc.. not perfect, but I thought you should know them: for instance our joint flights on syn
http://www.stats.syndicatesquadron.org/pilot/57744/
and it even logged my landing next to your emergency landing (click on log), then getting shot by aa and taking off again to make it over the lines:
http://www.stats.syndicatesquadron.org/sortie/389345/
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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:24 am

Great some really good ideas! I like the idea of breaking away from the flightsim norm. Getting more YouTubers involved would be great.

In the interest of creating a compelling story, i had a few ideas. If we could find a way to play on the same map with the same base, this would help with navigation and realism. Also we should choose a single country to fly for. Maybe custom skins for our Aerodrome's planes?

Do we want to let anyone join up? or should we maybe evaluate people to make sure they have the basic skills for flying in RoF with total realism? We could also have training days for people that need help learning the basics.

I LOVE these statistics they have! We can incorporate them into pilot profiles. I only died half the time lol, guess i have room for improvement. 100% crash status isn't the best either!



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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:04 am

arg, the forum is giving me trouble, all my text just disapeared because it sometimes re-directs me to the german promo-site of the company.. dam.

basically what I wrote, was that keeping it simple, fun and accessible might be best, to get other players to join,

to work, it needs:

a) a fun factor, so actually making episodes in videos and keeping track makes for long term, career style motivation..
b) basic core principles that the players need to understand..
the goal of having a more cooperative play style rather then hardcore PVP
like ways to communicate before and in flight without voice coms
how to keep track of your pilot and let go, once he´s dead, dying is obviously going to be a central part
tactical basics, like having the less experienced player lead the flight and the more experienced one trying to cover,
trying to stick with your flightmate and on part of the leader: don´t become target fixated or follow just one Ai down,
always attack the highest, most dangerous plane and trying to stay on top of the other planes in a tactical advantge
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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:37 am

Sorry the forum is giving you trouble. I turned off all the adverts it allowed me too. Anyway i agree with what you wrote. Do you feel the story elements i talked about in my last post would hurt accessibility? I feel they would be need to keep the videos interesting. Did you get a chance to look at the Pilot Profiles i added? If you think they aren't needed we don't have to use them. We could simply make a template post and have people build there Pilot Profiles in a section of the forum set aside for this project. About the name, do you think it would be better for it to be somewhat historical?


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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by JimmyBlonde on Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:57 pm

Hi guys,

Colour me interested, I like the idea.

I'd like to invite a subscriber wingman to fly with me with whom I would communicate via Skype. I know it's not how things were done in the day but it would add to the experience for the subscriber joining me and to my own commentary without getting to cluttered in terms of people talking. I think the whole flare system could make for some funny and confusing moments and it's generally a sound idea.

Also, maybe each YouTuber could have their own "entourage" or wingman, maybe with a custom emblem on their plane or something that would tell the others who is who.

I know a couple of YouTubers who would be interested, time zones will be an issue but I guess we can do this as many times as we like.
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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:03 pm

Hey Jimmy! Good to see you found your way here! I have no problem with you wanting to use voice chat as long as Zebra does not object, as the no voice comms was his suggestion.

Anyway, I think we might have a few things to finish working out before we start recruiting people. So far we decided that we would use one of the already made servers instead of our own.

I think custom planes for each YouTuber would be a great idea! However i know little about making skins or where to find someone who can make us custom ones.

We still need to figure out which alliance to fly for.

We need a name.

Also wondering if we can run the squad off the forums here, or if i should make a new forum or website .



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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by JimmyBlonde on Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:26 pm

I'd only be using Skype between myself and members of my own flight so that would leave people leading other flights free to choose their own method of communications. We'd also still be using Zeebras flare system to communicate outside of out own group. Personally I want to give my guys a chance to be a part of the commentary as I think that it would be more fun for them.

We could probably make a sub forum here for now and see how it goes?

A couple of other suggestions:

When I was contemplating putting together a co-operative campaign of my own I was very kindly approached by the admins of New Wings who offered to host the missions for me. I'd suggest this as an alternative for you guys to consider. I'd like to include New Wings somehow since they do a lot for new players and the community in general. If you guys don't mind I might make a post over there mentioning our project. I get a lot of people who are newer players and even people who have bought Rise of Flight after watching my content so this would be a good opportunity for all parties.

Secondly, I came across this mission recently which has a lot of potential:

Dynamic mission by Caryatid.

This mission dynamically generates various types of flights with different missions, I don't know how the SYN server is scripted, if it is similar to this or if the missions play out the same way each time

Anyway, it doesn't hurt to have options.

I've also messaged Tailmange so hopefully we shall hear from him soon.

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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:59 pm

I agree, that having a person in the comentary is a way having fun and it doesn´t really hurt to have options and different ways, they can easily be complimentary.
though I´d really like to also see a "historic" non-coms mission, just to see how it works and feels, but it is not priority. Because Fun is, and getting to actually do it needs to be done first ;=)

maybe we should just start with a test-balloon.. very basic, just flying together on a server and then adjust or finetune things as we go towards the final format?

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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by JimmyBlonde on Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:13 am

Good idea, start with the basics.
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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:04 am

Sounds good guys. Jimmy if New Wings is offering to host missions for us that would be great. It's true that YouTubers are definitely bringing more people into the RoF community which is great.

That mission looks pretty cool. As far as i can tell AI flights on Syndicate are sent up at timed intervals. But if I understand correctly this one is random.

Also i was thinking we need a sort of "High Command" to decide which pilots should receive medals and to act as admins for this whole project.

I started a sub forum called RoF multiplayer project. We can always change it if we come up with a better name.

I was thinking about the forums in this category. Here's what i cam up with:

Welcome/About - Intro to what we are doing here

General Discussion - Straightforward

Training - This is where people can post about problems learning how to fly. Zebra you can make a topic here explaining how your flare system will work. Make sure you sticky that post.

Roster - Ill put a topic in here with a roster of current pilots and a topic with a format template on submitting pilots.

Ready Room - The leader of the next flight can post here with their plan of attack and the tactics they want to use.

Pilots Lounge - A sort of roleplay area where people can talk in character with their pilots.

In Memoriam - When a pilot dies we will move their pilot profile here.



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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by DrZebra on Sat Oct 04, 2014 4:37 am

I like the ideas, so far, even if I expect "In Memoriam" might swell too quickly ;=)

We need a time to fly a testmission.
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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Dukely on Sat Oct 04, 2014 5:17 am

It may very well do so! Why don't you post in the Ready Room with a time, server, etc. Then people can reply if they can make it or not.


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JimmyBlonde

Posts : 8
Points : 8
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2014-10-01

Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by JimmyBlonde on Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:27 am

Sounds good, we could try out the SYN mission and see how it goes. One thing, the Ready Room seems to have vanished.

*Edit* Nevermind, it's back again.

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Re: Idea: Joint Online Mission..?

Post by Sponsored content


    Current date/time is Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:57 pm