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WW1 Pilot accounts

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DrZebra

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WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by DrZebra on Wed May 28, 2014 12:04 pm

there are a number of books still available which might interest one or the other of you folks playing RoF..

some written (well, the ghostwriters part excluded) by actual pilots are:

James McCudden - "Flying Fury: Five Years in the Royal Flying Corps"
Cecil Lewis - "Sagittarius Rising"
Eddie V. Rickenbacker - "Fighting the Flying Circus: The Greatest True Air Adventure to Come out of World War I"
Manfred Von Richthofen "The Red Fighter Pilot" (available for free on gutenberg.org)
Norman Archibald - "Heaven High Hell Deep"


some web resources to look at:
http://archive.org/search.php?query=world%20war%201914-1918%20aerial&page=2
http://www.gutenberg.org/wiki/World_War_I_%28Bookshelf%29
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Dukely
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Dukely on Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:27 am

I have read "The Red Fighter Pilot" it's very well written and provides some really interesting insight into flying at that time.

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DrZebra

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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by DrZebra on Wed Sep 10, 2014 9:57 am

i am currently searching for "Kusch Adam, Der Vogelmann, Erinnerungen Des Bagdadfliegers Hans Hesse" which is out of print and hard to get, but very worthwhile, also because of the imidiate post war aviation.
more here
http://www.overthefront.com/over-the-front-journal/book-reviews/kusch-adam-der-vogelmann-erinnerungen-des-bagdadfliegers-hans-hesse
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Dukely
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Dukely on Thu Sep 11, 2014 12:46 am

I see the book is written in German. That would make it really hard to find here in America. The few bookstores that still exist near myself only have books in English. However! Here is what I've found so far! The ISBN listed on that page is only 10 digits meaning its an old number. The new ISBN number is 9783879886289. Knowing that I was able to find 2 copies, both used. Both stores are in America so the shipping is gonna cost you.


http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?isbn=9783879886289&sts=t&x=33&y=1&clickid=xu0QRq1sc1d%3AV%3AUR4o1LeQ3%3AUkQRBmSAEUz23A0&cm_mmc=aff-_-ir-_-60105-_-77798&afn_sr=impact


http://www.alibris.com/booksearch?qsort=p&isbn=9783879886289&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_source=b*3vpTI7uFs&utm_campaign=2&siteID=b.3vpTI7uFs-rnf49tps52HsSPMBW8g8Kg

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DrZebra

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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by DrZebra on Thu Sep 11, 2014 2:40 am

thanks.. trying to find it in europe though, because of shipping costs, grr...

the "adventure" type flying stories postwar are pretty interesting, just finished Hans Bertrams book on crashing in Australia.
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Dukely
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Dukely on Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:47 pm

I just started Billy Bishops autobiography, its really interesting. However stay away from the kindle version, looks like they saved money by not using an editor.

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DrZebra

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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by DrZebra on Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:07 pm

it´s not perfect, but the "home movies" of anthony fokker explained quite well are interessting:



only that he can´t pronounce any non-english words.. the place names in french and german names are terribly wrong ;=)
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Dukely
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Dukely on Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:12 pm

Oh nice! I will have to watch this! I recently saw a great episode of Nova all about world war one aircraft. I'll look for it and post here if i can find it.

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DrZebra

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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by DrZebra on Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:34 am

I´m seeing if I can get "El Shahin" the non-self written autobiograhy of Hans-Joachim Buddecke one of the "gambling rats"... with a most notable biography.

the "spielratten" (gambling rats) where 3 famous aces (Frankl, Buddelecke and von Althaus) that met at the KEK Vaux (a "kampfeinsitzerkomando, the predecessor of jagdstaffeln) during the battle of the somme and where notorious for gambling, drinking, womanizing and petty crimes. If you want, i can tell a bit more of their stories, that many official histories forget, but that is researched today..  (many books still tell off Buddeckes most unusual trip to the US to learn to fly privatly as a heroic endeaveur, when infact he was actually fleeing the armies law.. ) great story stuff.

here is a pic of Kek Vaux:
Buddecke is in the middle, with a fes (turkish military hat) since after coming back from the us he was sent to the turkish allies (also because of his gambling trouble... like "let the turks deal with him.." but transfered back to the western front, when he got into too much trouble in turkey...then later he was sent there again and back, until he died in 1918 on the western front) von Althaus is to the left.


unfortunatly there is little on Frankl, who was of jewish origin and whose historical records where cleaned out under the nazis in ww2 because they did not want a "jewish" hero. But he had 20 confirmed victories and also used the cover of the blue max-fame to be excessive in gambling and drinking and breaking the rules with his 2 buddies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans-Joachim_Buddecke
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Freiherr_von_Althaus

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ah maybe we should make an own thread for all the historic footage and ww1 docus, there are just soo many of them.

just as a heads up, many good links where collected here:
http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=346&t=41683
´-------------------------------------------------------------
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Dukely
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Dukely on Fri Nov 07, 2014 1:39 am

Maybe we should make a section for stories about REAL pilots somewhere on the Forum. They are usually good and funny reading. I feel like if I had been a pilot back then I would most certainly have drank since I was up flying in those cracker boxes. Why not throw in gambling? I would be an officer, I'd have the money, haha. Suppose womanizing would be a good distraction from all the gambling so throw that in as well.

Shame about Frankl's records. The nazis weren't very considerate about historical preservation.

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DrZebra

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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by DrZebra on Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:08 am

I think a lot of officers did, but doing it so heavy that you get kicked out of the army in millitaristic prussia where covering up illegimate childs and other sins was pretty much standard practice with no big deal one you where an officer... was something. A good read /watch to understand the authority in millitarism are the many plays, books and movies on the "Hauptmann von Köpenik" based on a true story:

An unemployed man, Wilhelm Voight made a uniform and then just walked on the street commanding every soldier he saw in uniform to join his special comando.. to arrest the mayer and he then made of with the monies while letting the soldiers guard the arrested mayer
(in that context, fans of humor who don´t know the Dreadnaught Hoax should also look that up. darn funny)

Buddecke had to leave the army in 1913, but with the war he was able to return.. "all sins forgiven" and all that, until he made trouble again, beeing sent to turkey. He then came to the western fron because of running of debts in turkey and became an ace, before running to turkey again.. but not stopping there was his death. His friend and superior, Ernst Serno, couldn´t protect him after new escapades and ultimately the last punitive trip to the westfront with the brutal fighting of 1918 was totally different then what Buddecke had been an ace in: fighting in 1916. He did not last long and was killed on 03.10.1918 afte just a handful of flights. I think his story is quite unique.
some more pictures of him and others: http://www.buddecke.de/buddecke/albumbud/buddeckeaa.htm

Althaus had more luck, he was made comander of jasta 10, but after just 3 weeks, von Richthofen kicked him out, with citing medical reasons (instead of the gambling). And he really lost a lot of his eyesight, so he survived as the only one of the three.

Wilhelm Frankl was shot down the 8th of april, 1917.
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Dukely
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Dukely on Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:39 am

Very instresting! Where can I find more about the story of the random guy arresting the mayor?

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DrZebra

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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by DrZebra on Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:49 am

the link above is a good start.. I think the most movies on yt and so on (based on the play by Karl Zuckmaier) are only in german:

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Dukely
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Dukely on Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:50 am

DAMN! I should have taken more German in school! Beyond basic conversation I am quite lost...

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Nefaro
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Nefaro on Fri Nov 07, 2014 11:59 am

I'm often told that No Parachute and Open Cockpit by Arthur Gould Lee are some of the best WWI pilot narratives available due to the details of his daily life.  

IIRC, one of the books uses his detailed daily personal written accounts, written to describe his experiences to his wife, instead of writing by memory years later after the war was over as many such bios did.

I've been wanting to read them (and some others) but my Want list is much larger than my Time Available list, despite having a fair bit.  I could probably check one out at a time on Amazon Prime for a month free.  Just gotta commit to reading them through when I do so.

**

As for historical pilot groups, my flight simming persuaded me to check out some of the bios on specific pilots I had scrapped with in WOFF's career mode.  

Like when I happened across Otto Konnecke (35 Kills) of Jasta 5's "Golden Triumvirate" (which included aces Josef Mai and Fritz Rumey).  I wondered who the hell this guy was with the fancy paint job. The AI was suitably tough until after being wounded by my lucky high-angle shot (I also cheated and had the padlock stuff active at the time - wasn't used to TrackIR yet):



[/i][/i]
He often flew in conjunction with two other non-commissioned officers, Fritz Rumey and Josef Mai. The three aces, dubbed the Golden Triumvirate[3] because all three had won the Golden Military Merit Cross,[5] would eventually total 108 victories among them, or more than 40% of the Jasta's triumphs.[6]


His personal Albatros D.V during this period had one of the more fanciful paint schemes of the war. Its base color was green fuselage, tail, and elevators with a red propeller spinner. His insignia of black and white checkerboarding edged in red adorned the fuselage just ahead of the Maltese crosses, with a thin red line ringing the fuselage just before the tail

He was one of the few former NCOs to receive the Blue Max, and one of only five pilots awarded both the Golden Military Merit Cross and the Blue Max.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_K%C3%B6nnecke

Such encounters with good historical aces in-game always persuaded me to read their bios afterward. Other memorable cases was being ambushed by Raoul Lufbery after being separated from my flight & running home. Another is getting jumped by most of Jasta 11, with Richthofen and a pair of his buddies forcing me down with a dead engine and a bullet wound as a trophy. Good stuff. drunken
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dixieflyer

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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by dixieflyer on Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:32 am

You are right Nefaro, both of those books by Lee are excellent, and are my all-time favorites from WWI. Another I can recommend is:

Notes of a Lost Pilot
by Jean Beraud Villars
translated by Stanley J. Pincetl, Jr. and Ernest Marchand

Here in the U.S. about the only first hand accounts of the air war we can easily access are those of the pilots that flew for Great Britain and her dominions across the seas or those translations of German pilots. With the exception of accounts of the Lafayette Escadrille/Lafayette Flying Corps, I always thought this a shame that French accounts were as rare as they were. So far, this is the only one I've run across. I found it a very enjoyable read. Villars, a recon and then pursuit pilot, wrote it during the war, and published a heavily edited version in 1918 under a pseudonym, and for obvious reasons. His account is very damning of the French command, their decisions, etc.

FWIW,

Warren
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Nefaro
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Nefaro on Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:34 am

I thought Rickenbacker's book was just as good, and more descriptive regarding the action and some tactics, even though it wasn't a day-by-day dialogue.


Edit: To clarify - I meant to say that I found Rickenbacker's book just as good as those by Arthur Gould Lee, which everyone considers some of the best.

There are plenty others I still need to read.


Last edited by Nefaro on Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dukely
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Re: WW1 Pilot accounts

Post by Dukely on Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:52 am

I was given Sagittarius Rising for Christmas so I'm excited to read that.


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