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Fighter moves... movies.

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DrZebra

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Fighter moves... movies.

Post by DrZebra on Wed Oct 15, 2014 12:28 pm

unfortunatly the known vid site removes movies quickly, so I can´t find "Jet Pilot" by Howard Hughes there, which I wanted to show dukley for the use of rolls as a combat maneuver, but overall there are many good explanatory and fun movies and clips.

I just throw them in here:

the old BFM ones are sometimes nice:



veeery old flightsim vid ;=)

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DrZebra

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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by DrZebra on Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:12 pm

yeah, also Requiems vids are usefull again:










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DrZebra

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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by DrZebra on Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:15 pm

some scissors:



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Dukely
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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by Dukely on Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:04 am

The Air Force video is very helpful.

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DrZebra

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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by DrZebra on Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:55 am

especially since in flightsims online, there are a lot of very good players that extremly tough to beat when it comes to one-on-one fights, but with proper teamwork even not so good players get a chance to win against them. Or at least thats my experience so far.

And exploring that ww1-like with no coms, is quite a unique project.

regarding the first vid, though, there are a few things to observe, as it is from the early jet age (sabres vs mig style) and with the good old ww1 planes not everything there is feasible.

With our current albatri, which are really nice beginners planes and especially suited for teamwork, you can NOT play on superior speed or (against those allied maneuvering fighters) superior turning ability.
It´s strenght is firepower, very benign handling and controlability and good energy retention, especially in the vertical. That doesn´t seem much, but in teamwork especially the handlign and firepower can make it shine, if used to archieve energy retention through maneuvering.

It is notewothy, that the D5 is NOT better then the D3, but just slightly worse. It dives a bit better but it loses more speed the higher it goes, compared to the D3, which is also slightly more maneuverable. (historically, the D5 was faster, thats why it was kept in service, but that is not modeled in RoF)

defense:
the classic defense in the albatri is to break into the enemy and then pull up somewhat before either reversing and going into scissors or continueing going into a turning circle, only that in the alb you DON`T turn just level (like in a horizontal circle). Pull up to pull out speed and then change directions and dive in again. When you in a turn with a nieuport, remember you can not stay with him in a sustained turn.. but you can get a shot (if you remember our training vid, 2nd fight) if you go high, to reduce airspeed and thus increase turn rate, which also stores energy in form of alt. Dive in when you can hit him, but then pull up rather then turn and pull behind.

The ww2 "thach weave" is a good albi defensive tactic for a two ship flight against nieuports, triplanes and the likes.



part 2 and 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_vAr_dXMp8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz8Q1yq-IxI


Last edited by DrZebra on Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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DrZebra

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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by DrZebra on Tue Oct 21, 2014 11:54 pm

it´s ww2, but this really is an essential watch for anyone unsure about prop-fighter tactics.. I highly recomend taking a look:

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Dukely
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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by Dukely on Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:38 am

Wow, Thatch! I've read a lot about him. Designed a tactic to allow inferior American aircraft to beat superior Japanese aircraft. I go on a trip every summer where all I do is read. I happen to have read several books on fighting from carriers and Thatch came up frequently.

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DrZebra

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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by DrZebra on Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:17 am

the situation for the albies is a bit comparable to those of the wildcats: "superior" is a relative quality, but with the enmies flight characteristics against you and sturdieness and firpower as well as roll on your side, the thach weave is a very obvious solution.

another, very jet style, but interesting vid on naval intercept logics in the early jet age:

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SeaLord
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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by SeaLord on Tue Nov 11, 2014 3:19 pm

Wow, Requiems videos show me how much I need to learn (and unlearn).
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dixieflyer

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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by dixieflyer on Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:11 am

SeaLord, they're really great videos, aren't they? I know I had to unlearn several things when I got RoF. Last night my son and I were discussing how the FM for WWI a/c is so much rudder and elevator, while the WWII a/c (in IL-2) it was all aileron and elevator. If you get in a Gotha in RoF and even touch the ailerons, you'll die. At least that's been my experience so far.

Warren
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dixieflyer

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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by dixieflyer on Thu Dec 25, 2014 9:14 am

DrZebra wrote:the situation for the albies is a bit comparable to those of the wildcats: "superior" is a relative quality, but with the enmies flight characteristics against you and sturdieness and firpower as well as roll on your side, the thach weave is a very obvious solution.

However, are you/we utilizing a "modern" solution out of time and context? I'm thinking a "Thatch Weave", "drag and bag", etc. will be hard to execute without in-flight comms, ergo why we don't see it evolve during out period of study, and why it probably won't work well in our fights as you/we are seeking to set them up here. Thoughts?

Warren
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DrZebra

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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

Post by DrZebra on Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:44 pm

dixieflyer wrote:
However, are you/we utilizing a "modern" solution out of time and context? I'm thinking a "Thatch Weave", "drag and bag", etc. will be hard to execute without in-flight comms, ergo why we don't see it evolve during out period of study, and why it probably won't work well in our fights as you/we are seeking to set them up here. Thoughts?

Warren

I tend to disagree... while direct voice comms where a major breakthrough, teamwork was actually known to be effective in ww1 aerial warfare with different forms of implementation. The Red Barron actually talks of going after the seemingly less coordinated targets in several passages and "traps" with planes low and high cover in the sun where common. Even defensive weaves for twoseaters and all that those things where devised.

But the lack of voicecoms makes the fights in RoF actually more interesting because the real challenge is to have picture of situational awareness once a fight breaks up into individual engagements.. The colours of the flying circus had also a bit to do with the whole difficulty of realizing who was doing what...

basically, the two important components in ww1 style aerial fighting teamwork where and are

a) doctrins
like "pattern masks" what to do when

b) Situation reading and "mind reading" for your fellow pilots
which is more challenging in ww1 then ww2 or later, but due to lower relative speeds also more possible as the distances are likely to be observable.

the whole aspect of just having partial information and often (with tiny monitors) in a fight losing the oversight of what´s going on in total, makes the whole project fun: with people collecting their perspective and thoughts in videos or reports.

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Re: Fighter moves... movies.

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