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Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

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SeaLord
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Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by SeaLord on Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:31 am

I'm pretty busy with Rise of Flight already (and I am getting Wings: Over Flanders Fields), but would anyone be interested in playing the boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

The Wikipedia page about the game is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight_in_the_Skies

The official site with the game files and files related to the Virtual Dawn Patrol module for the Vassal online war gaming engine is here:

http://www.dawnpatrol.info/

I used to play this with my friends when I was a kid and I have fond memories of the game.  It has a roleplaying aspect--you create a pilot character who gains experience and advantages in combat (if he lives).  It is really great to play in a group face-to-face.  I know I harp about this game a lot, but I really enjoyed it.
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Dukely on Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:44 am

I've wanted to play this for awhile. I'm not overly familiar with vassal however.

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SeaLord
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by SeaLord on Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:28 am

I have not used it either.
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Dukely on Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:16 am

I'm gonna look into it.

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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Nefaro on Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:14 am

Man... I vaguely remember playing Dawn Patrol from TSR when I was a kid.

Don't remember any of the rules at all though. Which is something at least one person should know well when playing a game on Vassal since it is pretty much just a digital board and components.

That said, I think there are many Vassal games that would be fun. We should probably start off with something relatively light, and we would need to run voice while doing so.



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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Dukely on Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:49 pm

I read that you can do live games and also a more play by email style. Don't know what will work best for you guys. Easy game to start with? Hmm not sure what that would be. Card game maybe?

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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by SeaLord on Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:00 pm

Nefaro wrote:Man... I vaguely remember playing Dawn Patrol from TSR when I was a kid.  

Don't remember any of the rules at all though.  Which is something at least one person should know well when playing a game on Vassal since it is pretty much just a digital board and components.

That said, I think there are many Vassal games that would be fun.  We should probably start off with something relatively light, and we would need to run voice while doing so.




As I recall, the rules were a little complicated, but I was about 14 at the time. FITS probably isn't a good game for first-time wargamers.
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Nefaro on Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:23 pm

I don't think us three are new to it, so would probably be fine.  IIRC, Dawn Patrol was one of the lighter air combat tabletop games so if you have it and are familiar with the rules it shouldn't be much of a problem. Smile

The biggest hump is having the person who knows how to play teach all the others and we must all get acquainted with the specific game module in Vassal (such as how to flip cards over, move tokens in & out of the supply, and all kinds of UI stuff).  Hence the voice requirement.  Even the easiest games take a good bit of 'splainin and Q&A before they get running in Vassal - even more so than if you just set up the game on the table.

I've never been big on PBEM style of play, although I've done it on rare occasion with PC games when needed.  I would imagine playing a boardgame over vassal would be a lot more fun if we were doing it live with voice chat and practically essential the first time we do a specific one.  I wonder if the Steam voice feature would suffice?


At some point I'll make a list of tabletop games I own which have Vassal modules, after we play some Dawn Patrol. Cool


EDIT: Another thing to be aware of regarding Vassal.. Essential game components are usually missing. Such as the rules, charts & tables, even some card text in the case of stuff like Fantasy Flight Games. So the game owner will be the one looking up stuff, depending on the specific game module. Even if it's only a combat chart or two. Just FYI.
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by SeaLord on Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:42 pm

Alright then, I will start refamiliarizing myself with the game. The FITS website in my first post has a page with the rules that you can download once you pay the fee to join the site. I did not look at the price. I believe the rules went through some updates and modifications, and I suppose those are included.
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Dukely on Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:02 am

I'm not paying a fee to read some rules. I'll look around to see if the rules are available free somewhere. If someone has the actual rules they could scan them for others to read. Also we can make a group chat on steam if you guys think that would be easier to use. Shouldn't be a problem since, geographically we are relatively close.

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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Dukely on Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:00 am

I had a look around and found Canvas Eagles/Blue Max. Which is very similar to Dawn Patrol. Also Blue Max has just been reprinted so we could all pickup the game itself or even use the rules and resources they have here: http://www.eaglesmax.com/

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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by GenMarkof007 on Thu Jan 22, 2015 5:29 am

Dukely wrote:I'm not paying a fee to read some rules. I'll look around to see if the rules are available free somewhere. If someone has the actual rules they could scan them for others to read. Also we can make a group chat on steam if you guys think that would be easier to use. Shouldn't be a problem since, geographically we are relatively close.

Hi,

I might try it, but I'm not the best in board games.
Just for you to know, we have a TS3 channel call : DD Other WW1 games
It's always open and anyone can use it for games like this one or any other ones.
It's open to any DD members Wink

Cheers
Gen
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SeaLord
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by SeaLord on Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:55 am

Dukely wrote:I'm not paying a fee to read some rules. I'll look around to see if the rules are available free somewhere. If someone has the actual rules they could scan them for others to read. Also we can make a group chat on steam if you guys think that would be easier to use. Shouldn't be a problem since, geographically we are relatively close.

I understand your position about not paying "to read rules."  I think perhaps we should put my suggestion aside for the time being.

The designer of the game, Mike Carr, has actually got a fairly shrewd scheme with the website.  The scheme he has raises a lot of "fair use" issues that I really, really don't want to get into.

Carr owns the copyright to the game rules, so he can sell the rules.  A buyer of the game, in turn, has the right of "fair use" of the rules to play the games with his friends.  We all know how this works for a traditional hardcopy game.  Carr, however, has moved his business model for selling the game onto the Internet.  He distributes the game by making people register to the Dawn Patrol site and paying a $15 annual fee, at least once, to access the download to the rules, the Vassal module, and his newsletter "Aerodrome."  I cannot determine what rights the payor of the "fee" has.  Is the payor purchasing the game outright, or is he paying a fee to play the game for during the year his subscription is in effect?  I would hope it is the former, but I cannot tell.  What rights does the payor of the fee have to the Vassal module (which it seems would be copyrighted as well)? Again, I would hope the fee would purchase the module outright, but I am not sure.  The devil in in the fine print.

I also suspect that Mr. Carr spends a large part of his day on Google looking for people who are producing copies of his rules and distributing them on the Internet.  I would not be surprised if he has already discovered this very forum thread.

As an owner of the rules, I believe I would be infringing on Mr. Carr's copyright to make a complete copy of the rules and distribute it to my friends.  I should note, however, that Boardgamegeek.com has a description of the game with many, many IMAGES OF THE COUNTERS, HIT TABLES, CARDS, etc., here: http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/6638/fight-skies  Obviously, Boardgamegeek.com has checked with its lawyers and has determined that it is OK to post the images.

With all that said, I could teach you how to play the game and conduct a game.  The access to the Vassal module is another problem.  I do not know if there is a different free Vassal module out there of FITS that is offered.  I guess I will check.
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Dukely on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:11 am

All the more reason to not play that game. I understand he wants to protect his copyright but that business model is awful. Canvas Eagles/Blue Max is the way to go! Also we could play other games that some of us all may own already. I should make a game list like Nefaro and we can see what we have in common.

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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Nefaro on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:25 am

Dukely wrote:I had a look around and found Canvas Eagles/Blue Max. Which is very similar to Dawn Patrol. Also Blue Max has just been reprinted so we could all pickup the game itself or even use the rules and resources they have here: http://www.eaglesmax.com/


Canvas Eagles is a freebie these days.  I believe there is a Vassal module for Blue Max (maybe even for Canvas Eagles??) that could be used.  I had debated picking up the old version of Blue Max off Ebay recently but I already have approximately three or four WWI dogfight tabletop games as it is.

The modern re-release of Blue Max is different from the old Blue Max in numerous ways.  Enough to make the systems different.  

If there is a module for the modern version of Blue Max, then we may be able to do it sometime just with the components I have (after I learn it).  The whole Blue Max system is based around a Maneuver Chart with codes for you to pre-plot (with special sneak peek for anyone tailing you to some extent) so it would be a good system to use with Vassal, methinks.  The only problem being that the Vassal module needs to include a function for secretly entering your maneuver code in and having it reveal everyone's at the same time (which they often do in such double-blind games).

Ideally whatever game we end up using will have few missing charts and such in the Vassal module, and whomever owns the game can scan and email an image of the essential one(s) to the others.  


All this being said... we don't require everyone to own the game in question.  Just one person.  But that person will have to teach the others how to play and possibly provide the player charts to the others since some game publishers require that their free Vassal modules don't include all of the components (for obvious reasons).  

It all sounds more difficult than in practice, I'm sure.  The question is which game to use and how complete the Vassal module is.



I agree with Dukely - we should find out which Vassal-supported games we have, make a list of them, and go from there.

I know that both Dukely and I own Bloody April, and Super Dungeon Explore. Beyond that, I've no idea. As long as one of us owns a game in question, we're good to go.
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SeaLord
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by SeaLord on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:30 am

Dukely wrote:All the more reason to not play that game. I understand he wants to protect his copyright but that business model is awful. Canvas Eagles/Blue Max is the way to go! Also we could play other games that some of us all may own already. I should make a game list like Nefaro and we can see what we have in common.

I concede. I agree. I throw myself at your mercy.
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Re: Would Anyone Like to Play the Boardgame Fight in the Skies (a.k.a. Dawn Patrol)?

Post by Dukely on Thu Jan 22, 2015 10:55 am

Victory! Just kidding, sounds like a good game but of course its been made difficult. No matter! We shall compile game lists and go from there.


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